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Why didn’t anyone tell me I spelled “soul” wrong…..I’m such an idiot!
@ Bri- Nevermind you spelled it wrong, lol. I got worried there for a minute.
Could you just give points to all shooters? Somehow adjust 3 points to 6 points for 1st place then 4-2nd, 3-3rd, 2-4th, 1-5th and 0-last? I would like to know who is getting some recognition as far as the total points on the top right.
That way if Mike, Mats or Kent grab a win they have something to work off of. Then do away with handicaps!
sincerely,
your fan
To illustrate my last post, people’s scores would look something like:
Devon M: (12)
Brett L: (8)
Brian H: (6)
Mats H: (3)
Kent G: (2)
Mike H: (2)
Common, this just makes sense!
This is an idea also. I’m not sure it will make the photographers slack off or not but judge for yourself. Do away with points completely and just have people vote for their favorite every week. We could still implement the handicaps for that week’s winner.
@Brett: Totally see where you are coming from Brett!
I too would like to see some change, not because there is a problem or even a weakness, but in trying something new.
I still think my idea is better
@Kevin H.: ppshhh, whateva!
In my mind there are two weakness of our current system: 1) Lack of scoring for the lower ranked players, 2) Handicapping.
I think these are weaknesses because they translate to: 1) Feeling like a loser because your score is low, 2) having to figure out a handicap each week (granted we’ve only done this once, but I could see it becoming a bother).
But the down side without these elements are: 1) Lack of motivation/competition, 2) skilled and/or equipped person’s “unfair” advantage.
Kev’s idea makes the losers feel a little better. However, “no handicaps” means some people may consistently win. Which then takes away the competition, which then kinda’ makes the scoring system moot.
Brett’s idea makes everyone feel like winners, but then, again, may take away the competition factor.
All that being said, I think Kev may be right with having the scoring be based on how many are in the race (i.e. 6 points for 1st on down to 1 point for 6th place). However, I think we still need to keep the handicaps. As much as it’d be nice to do away with them, I think no handicaps would limit the feeling of close competition.
What do you guys think?
@Kevin H.: You keep writing “common”. I think you mean “come on.” Common is: normal or shared
@Brian: I didn’t know we were trying to make everyone else besides the winner, losers!
But in defense of my idea: 1) Not everyone would necessarily feel like “winners” because the weekly voting will still reflect how people liked your photo compared to the others. 2) I think everyone would still want to win each week so they wouldn’t slack. Plus it may be even beneficial because with points, those that are behind may feel like they can’t catch up, where as with my idea, anyone could win each week! It could be a motivating factor.
@Brett: I suppose that is true. I’m curious to know what other people think. I guess we could always try different systems for a while to see how it works out. What do people think?
Well now that I feel like I am in fifth grade with spelling like mine, I can only say so much. J/K
Anyway, it simply seems fair and highlights the top performers to use a 6-1 scoring system. Now allow me to follow a train of thought. In using the old system, if Devon gains a substantial lead of points, it will reduce motivation for Mats, Mike, Kent and the rest to perform. A 6-1 scoring system lets the bottom three, if we can say this politely, perform against each other while going for the gold! This also increases involvement from the voters seeing that their votes did count for something. To be nerdy, the percentage of the votes for the bottom three pictures of both weeks equals ~%22. This really highlights the fact that %22 of voters feel there is talent worth their one vote. Needless to say this is not an election, but a niche group sharing their opinions through votes online.
Use of handicaps limits a new winner’s right to fully feel like a winner. Devon has this post-production handicap and therefore, even if we received a second place, he would still feel like a winner. What do you think about this being true–anyone?
Totally my opinion, but let us see who, overtime, has proven professional!!
your fan,
Kevin
@Kevin H.: Good point. I hadn’t really thought about the votes “counting for something” in the mind of the voter. That is a good point.
However, I just can’t see getting rid of handicaps. Even though Devon didn’t really use Photoshop on “Memories of the Past” I think he’s got some serious skills with it. That puts him at an advantage over most of us (Brett & Kent are also Photoshop pros. I’m not too bad, but dad’s never really used it before). On the other hand, dad has a lot of nice camera equipment that the rest of us don’t have (although, I can use it if I ask nice enough) - which puts him at an advantage.
Another example. What if I went out and purchased a super sweet magnification lens and started submitting really cool close-ups. I might keep on winning, and without an imposed handicap I could keep on using it. Granted, this example may not be perfect because the voters might get tired of the close-ups. But, the point is, without handicaps I think it’s possible that some people might have some serious advantages. Of course, in the real world, that’s just life - but, again, too much advantage will probably spell “motivation killer.”
Besides that, if you look at the handicap voting, it seems like most people like the idea of handicapping.
@Brian: Yep. I hear you loud and clear, and appreciate feedback of any kind.
To make my thought heard loud and clear, I can only say this:
Let me continue then.
If handicaps are allowed to remain, I will totally support it as a choice of the 15 online voters and the rest involved. To put my views out their, I don’t think the dichotomous questionnaire was open ended, and therefore, no one voted on the full picture (no pun intended).
However, you photographers have to decide if the purpose is a challenge between 6 men or the world. I know this sounds too serious, but if Devon, Brett or you are handicapped in anyway it will limit the overall power of your individual portfolios. These portfolios may be used to gain a position in the corporate world—who knows.
Devon has mad skills and should be highlighted as a photographer!
The obsessed one,
Kevin
@Brian: I wanted to add:
Close-ups, HRD, location, etc, should make you as web provider, the assumed catalyst to this competition, and as a good photographer see a need for vast differences in the week-to-week assignments. This should solve any gutless cheats.
-Kevin the wannabe
Let me start with this, I think the handicap should stay. Unlike previous weeks, Ive already taken my picture for minimalism with the handicap of no post production. I agree with the opinion that handicaps do restrict creativity. But in my opinion producing a shot with only CC forced me to think about taking a good picture instead of making a good picture. I think I am a better photographer for it, and I think I still came up with an amazing shot, but that remains to be seen.
I just thought of an idea and it may seem like its kinda out there but here it is. What if there was still a handicap on the previous weeks winner but the bottom 3 overall could choose from an “a la carte” menu. They could choose to handicap themselves (publicly stated before the assignment is given) and different handicaps would be worth different amounts of points. I haven’t thought it all out but maybe they would get the points regardless or maybe it would be like a multiplier effect thing, im not really sure.
I like this idea because it gives more people a chance to stretch their abilities and become better photographers. It also would prevent people from falling too far behind. maybe the handicap thing could be open to everyone and they would be worth the same amount for everyone but the lower you are ranked overall, the more you would get to multiply by i.e. 1st:0 2nd:1 3rd:1.5(or 2) and so on. this would give the last place a pretty substantial advantage (especially if they do well that week. Maybe im crazy and its a very rough idea but hopefully it makes some sense. let me know what you think.
Another idea to challenge the weeks winner more fully is to take away being a week behind in the handicap. let me explain: We find out who wins on thursday (during the next assignment) what if the winner gets a handicap immediately and must take that weeks picture after 3:00 on thursday? Also the other players would be able to decide on a handicap after they knew what the assignment would be, thereby making it a more difficult handicap because it would be given to make the current weeks assignment more difficult i.e. no tripod for a night photo etc. or maybe just decide on the handicap after the weeks assignment is released.
I wrote a lot… let me know what you think. And i know i have bad grammar or and spelling:)
@Devon: I like the idea of the multiplier. I think we’d have to see some examples to make sure that that system would work. I’ll think on it for a while. It could be a good solution. We’d have to decide on if you get the multiplier only if you take upon yourself the handicap or if it happens automatically…?
The other thing to keep in mind with the scoring system is that the idea right now is that if any one person starts winning like crazy they need to have increasingly hard and multiple handicaps placed upon them. We keep talking about the weekly winners handicap, which I think most people agree is a good thing. However, if Devon keeps winning every single week then a single weekly handicap may not be enough to keep the race close.
I agree with Kev that it’d be nice to see the winners at their full potential, sans handicap, but I think for a competition it wouldn’t be fun for the losers or even the viewers Besides, like Devon said, handicaps can help us grow and learn in areas we don’t normally focus on - which to me is the most compelling reason to keep it.
But, back to the point, if a multiplier is used then it is possible that the scoring might be tighter each week, but if the winner only has one handicap the winner may always be the winner. (I guess I keep thinking in my head that a first place for a non-usual-winner would be cool even if that means other people are handicapped. Maybe that’s not true. Maybe if I got a 1st because everyone else was handicapped it’d feel like a shallow win?) What I’m saying is that keeping the scores close versus rank placement are two different things - and it’s possible that a multiplier may only keep the scores close.
It could be that we’re getting ahead of ourselves, though. Even though 1st, 2nd and 3rd were the same this week, it may just be coincidence. If it happens a few more times then we know it’s not an accident, but a pattern.
Lastly, I agree with you Devon that knowing the assignment for the handicap would be good. Therefore, I think it’d be good if we always knew 2 weeks worth of assignments.
Wow. I feel like it is my turn to step in and add a photo of my own…
Kev
you could add a handicap for each consecutive week a player gets first place
i also think it would be fun to enforce the handicap immediately. so you must take the current weeks picture with that handicap.
Oh! that could take care of consecutive wins because the winner of the previous week would already have a handicap and if they won again they would have to use both handicaps that week and take the picture after voting is closed but still before the deadline only 3 days away. It also possible that ive been smokin crack and this makes no sense. Okay, i havent been smokin crack
@ Everyone. K.I.S.S. - “Keep it simple stupid”, Great advice…. hurts my feelings every time! I think the more simple it is the better. Things are going to start getting CRAZY! Not that I think my idea is best… but I do!
The person that my idea would hurt the most is Devon unfortunately because he is winning, but I think starting fresh every week will give everyone a fair chance every week. If someone wants to be on top they will have to produce good photos each week. Plus it is very simple for the voters to follow! Really I am up to doing what everyone wants. Bri, I think you should get a couple of solid ideas, Kevs, Devons, Yours, Mine, anyone elses and then we vote on it!!!!
Also, Handicaps can still be used with my idea.
as one of the lower ranked I am ok with anything. No need to get complicated too soon. I think we all just enjoy the forum to experiment and show our work product. I might even be a contender in a few weeks
I like the scale rating from 1-6. Good Idea. I agree that things may change in a couple of weeks. For me, it’s always a tough decision. It’s so close between ratings, that it comes down to little things, like titles, how I feel it goes along with the theme, etc. There are many times I would have voted for one pictures, but there’s one thing that’s off in my mind. Would the photographers appreciate feedback on their pictures after the voting is closed? That’s tough, I’m sure, because everyone can be a critic and I can’t take as good as photos as you all, but if this is indeed a competition and you want to improve, you may be interested in peoples’ reasons for why they did NOT choose a certain picture. By the way, I voted for Dad’s the first time, and Devon’s this time.
I have another idea. How about we do away with the 3-2-1 point system and we just give 1 point for a win each week. That means the current leader Devon would have 2 points and the rest of us none. If for example Bri wins next week then he´s only 1 point behind and so on. One week means one point.
I think this is a very uncomplicated system. It also will help boost the motiviation since I know that even though I have no points in the first 2 weeks, by next week I could be in 2:nd place and a week away from tied with the leader. And even if someone gets a couple of wins. Everyone still knows that if they win one week it means they get the point and noone else.
As handicaps are concerned. I think the handicap system could be done away with. I realize it´s there to make the competition more “fair”. But it really isn´t a compliment to the rest of us if the person being handicapped still wins every week. That I think would be worse then being a couple of points behind. Besides, I wouldn´t want to start winning because someone else is limited in what he´s allowed to do.
That being said. I think maybe we should ask ourselves if this is a photo contest or a picture contest. If it´s a photo contest then I think we should focus on the photography and limit eveyones use of photoshop (or whatever post-production one may use). Color Correction of course is fine, but if we start adding layers and editing the pictures heavily, then I think that is “too much”.
That´s my thoughts…
And so we come to a long road of suggestions from a few people. Votes?
—Kev
I’ll summerize our options and probably post a vote box sometime next week. While, I’m open to suggestions and like the idea of democracy. Keep in mind, this is brihogan.com. I’m the man with all the POWER! ^_^ But mostly, this site does take time and change takes more.
@Jen: I’m open to feedback. You may want to wait until you hear from a few other photographers, though.
I have to say that when I summarize all the different suggestions. My idea seem to take them all in.
1. It would make it simpler.
2. It would keep the spirit of competition.
3. One win gets me one step closer to the top. (With the other systems the leader could still get points when someone else wins and in that way stay ahead.)
4. If we focus on the photography part and do away with most of the post production, the the competition comes down to Photography skills. (It´s hard to learn photoshop in a couple of weeks just to be able to compete) Handicaps wouldn´t be necessary.
I hope I´m getting my point across. After all, english isn´t my first language.
Anyway, I welcome a vore. But I really think that everyone should vote for my suggestion
Actually, I don´t even now if I think we should vote on this. Like Bri said. It´s his site and he started the competition. As a part-time web developer I know how much time things like this takes. Maybe he should just make the decision. (PICK ME, PICK ME…) 
@Jen: I´m open to feedback to…
@Jen: Sure.
Did no one pick up on my reference to The Office? K.I.S.S. is said by Dwight to Ryan in the episode “The Initiation”.
@Brett: good one!